1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,520
The possibility of the existence of flying saucers, we've been probing it for some weeks

2
00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:08,800
now and we're going to try it again tonight.

3
00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,240
Now, of course, on hand to join me around the U-Pollegy round table, Bob Grove and Earl

4
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:18,800
Neff, our regular panelist, and this evening, young engineering gentleman, Mr. Bob Novak.

5
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,800
Bob, what is your interest in flying saucers?

6
00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,680
How does this come about from an engineer to a flying saucer, right?

7
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:30,280
Well, this came about back quite a few years.

8
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:35,320
Because of this interest, actually, I started off, I heard about, I went to see Major Kehoe.

9
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,560
He had a meeting downtown once, a talk.

10
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,360
And actually, from this talk, I received a card to go to meetings and I started going

11
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,560
to meetings and from that, I just became interested and started reading books and it

12
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,000
served by Major Kehoe and George Adamski.

13
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,680
And from there, that's how it started.

14
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,680
Strange part of mentioning the same breath.

15
00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:02,320
From what Earl and Bob have been telling me, George Adamski and Major Kehoe, kind of the

16
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,320
extreme end.

17
00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:09,080
Well, let me set this example before yourself, Bob, and Bob Grove and Earl.

18
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,960
Now, this is a letter that received in the mail during the course of the week.

19
00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:13,960
By the way, hello, Bob.

20
00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:14,960
Hello, how are you?

21
00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:15,960
How are you?

22
00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:20,240
You've seen this letter, so let me read it for our listeners now.

23
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,760
But a little long, but not too long, I think it deserves some attention.

24
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:30,680
This came in last week to us and it tells of an area or a theory of propulsion.

25
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:36,640
So many of us are asked the question, how do you explain the fact that these flying

26
00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,000
saucers have been seen to turn at a virtual 90 degree angle?

27
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,520
And we know, of course, by our own standards that this is impossible.

28
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,320
We've discussed it several times, you're on the UFO round table.

29
00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:50,760
Let me read you a theory and see what your gentlemen think of it now.

30
00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,440
This comes in from the person asked, is not to use their name on this one early or not?

31
00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,000
No, no, that's all right.

32
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,000
Mr. John A. LaBota, Parkview, Ohio.

33
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,200
I don't know the gentleman, but I know it's all right.

34
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,800
You've got a fascinating theory here.

35
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,840
He says, in the past few years, I've been very interested in articles and publications

36
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,840
referring to the possibility of unidentified flying objects.

37
00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,600
Now, it's occupied my time so much that as a result of delving into these certain problems

38
00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,760
concerning the erratic movements of these flying objects, I went through it this time,

39
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,760
explained some ideas I've entertained and asked whether or not the other people, including

40
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,400
myself, had fought along the same line.

41
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,240
To avoid a detailed discussion, he makes it rather brief.

42
00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:35,280
He'll only say that the method of propulsion employed may be a relative to Einstein's unified

43
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,280
field theory and his explanation of gravitation and magnetism.

44
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:45,840
The UFO, I feel, are utilizing gravitational fields of other planets or stars in their

45
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,960
movements about our solar system and our galaxy.

46
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:53,920
Based on this assumption, I'll now attempt to explain my ideas on their erratic behavior

47
00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:57,440
and their complete disregard for our gravitational fields.

48
00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:02,200
A number of articles, both by claimed observers in this case, radar operators and other competent

49
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,560
peoples, have all stated the following similar facts.

50
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,840
The UFOs were traveling at unheard of speeds of thousands of miles an hour and that while

51
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,080
traveling a straight prescribed path were observed to veer off their straight path as

52
00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:20,280
much as 90% of the prescribed path with no apparent loss of speeds and with an amazing

53
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,320
disregard for our loss of gravitation.

54
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,320
This is amazing.

55
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,000
There's no question about it.

56
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,400
But let's stop and evaluate the preceding statement again.

57
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:35,120
Speeds of thousands of miles an hour and change of direction with no apparent loss of speed.

58
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,440
We know that our Earth has various movements with respect to its path around the sun.

59
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:44,880
The two movements that we're concerned with now are its speed and rotation on its axis

60
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:49,120
every 24 hours and the speed of its revolution around the sun.

61
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,200
Well consider that you are at this moment in a spaceship.

62
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,240
You've attached your ship to the gravitational field of any star or even a planet in our

63
00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:58,240
solar system.

64
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,560
Let's further say that for this explanation that you're attached to the gravitational

65
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:07,520
field of Jupiter and you've located yourself in the direct path of our planet Earth and

66
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:13,320
as you hover in space motionless you've calculated the Earth will pass to within five miles of

67
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:14,320
your position.

68
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:15,640
You're not moving.

69
00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,000
The Earth is approaching.

70
00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,120
Your calculations show that the Earth will pass below you at the speed of approximately

71
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,920
8,000 miles an hour and as our planet passes you an observer from our planet will look

72
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,080
up and see you passing by at the amazing speed of 8,000 miles an hour.

73
00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:36,480
So as you continue to hover motionless other observers on our planet will testify to an

74
00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:43,760
object traveling at fantastic speeds yet all of this time you've remained perfectly still.

75
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,080
Now at this time you, and don't forget you're in the spaceship, you decide to move from

76
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:53,120
this present position and decide on a course of right angles to the direction of the path

77
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:54,120
of the Earth.

78
00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,120
So you're making your first and only movement.

79
00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,320
At this precise moment observers on Earth who have been watching you become amazed at what

80
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,200
they see because from their position they testify of an object traveling at fantastic speeds

81
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,520
in changing direction as much as 90 degrees and they observe no loss of speed yet you

82
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:15,760
on the spaceship can only record one movement and only one movement yet the observers on

83
00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:20,480
Earth record two distinct movements, one of approach and one at right angles to the approach.

84
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:25,240
Now imagine therefore how many erratic movements could be explained by this simple deduction.

85
00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,760
Well is this in fact a simple deduction?

86
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,720
Is it making any sense?

87
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:30,720
Bob, what do you think?

88
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,520
This is absolutely one and I'd like to go on record.

89
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,960
It's definitely an approval and positive on this.

90
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:42,000
I would say that this is without any question one of the finest bits of insight into the

91
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,320
UFO enigma that I've ever heard written in one sheet of paper.

92
00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:52,200
I'd like to compliment the gentleman formally in his depth with which he has approached

93
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:53,200
his thing.

94
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:54,200
This is extremely fine.

95
00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:59,880
The unified theory or unified field concept as formulated by Einstein and many others

96
00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:07,160
now working on is basically as he suggests there the various types of fields and phenomena

97
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:12,640
which exist throughout the universe are actually a very close intertwining and interrelationship

98
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,960
and the way he has presented it I feel is quite marvelous.

99
00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,480
I think he's done an excellent job and I would say without any question whatsoever.

100
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:26,880
If this type of thing were observed and if the object itself were of the size that it

101
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:32,280
could be seen high above in which case the new gravitational pull of the earth going

102
00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:37,840
by would not affect the thing and it could counteract this gravitational pull mechanically

103
00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:44,000
by itself and I would say that this would very, very definitely I think have to be carefully

104
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,520
considered as a possibility yet.

105
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,400
Just from a non-export standpoint isn't it?

106
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:53,280
Wouldn't it have to be a way to hang up there in order to be outside of our pull and still

107
00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:55,400
latch it onto Jupiter's pull?

108
00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,800
Yes, as a matter of fact it would if it is actually latched on.

109
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:06,680
Now from a standpoint however of it being a possibly mechanically or artificially latched

110
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,920
on we might say then as the earth goes under it would simply have to by means of propulsion

111
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:19,160
simply avoid or a counter force set up to simply repel the mutual gravitational attraction

112
00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,800
which is a product dependent upon the masses of the two objects the earth and the flying

113
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:25,800
object and this could be done.

114
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,400
This is of course how we basically arrive at an object going away from earth like a rocket.

115
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:36,800
We simply repel this mutual product of the two masses drawing each other together gravitationally.

116
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:42,040
This thing that out or close would merely have to provide a means of propulsion to keep

117
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,720
itself from being pulled toward the earth and then relatively would be remaining motionless

118
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,640
next to Jupiter but appear to be in quite a great velocity in a trajectory with relation

119
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:52,640
to the earth.

120
00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:53,640
That's amazing.

121
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:54,640
I think it's a beautiful piece.

122
00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,640
I think people with this agree with it.

123
00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:58,640
Alright, Harold?

124
00:07:58,640 --> 00:07:59,640
Yes I do.

125
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:05,320
First of all I appreciate the great work that this man has put into this letter.

126
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:10,680
I wish there were more people like him spending this kind of time to prepare a letter.

127
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,000
I understand although I do not know the gentleman, I never had the pleasure of meeting him.

128
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:22,560
I do understand through a man who knows him quite well that he has made some changes in

129
00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:29,760
his thinking since he has heard some other statements made perhaps on this program, I

130
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,960
hope, due to the changes of color.

131
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,160
Now I agree with him up to a point.

132
00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,280
This would be if the object were going then just in the opposite direction.

133
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:46,760
That would be fine but as in the case of John Crawford down in Canton, Ohio a few years

134
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:55,240
back he was telling me of this beautiful sighting that he had that where the object was swinging

135
00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,720
back and forth like a pendulum.

136
00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:05,080
As you can see this is quite another picture and the change of color due to speed and probably

137
00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,480
the closeness into our atmosphere all has direct bearing on the theory.

138
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,840
Therefore I do not think the man is correct in his theory but I certainly think he has

139
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,960
a marvelous idea there and if he continues in this direction he might come up with the

140
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,600
answer and I hope he does.

141
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:21,600
I wonder about the pendulum.

142
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,080
Could that be explained simply by a continuance of this reversing?

143
00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:30,520
In other words instead of going through this 90 degree one time just to change a relative

144
00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,600
position to the earth a number of times back and forth?

145
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:40,960
Well I do not know how to answer that but in the case of this first one that I saw that

146
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,520
was doing the sawtooth effect.

147
00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:50,320
There you see you are going in three directions one from west to east.

148
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,800
Then as it is going in this straight line it is taking a 90 degree turn downward and

149
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,360
a 45 degree turn toward the east as it continues on.

150
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,400
This is did six times like sawtooth.

151
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,040
Now that I do not believe could be explained by this theory.

152
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,880
What do you think Bob?

153
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,880
I still feel it could.

154
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:09,880
Well that is fine.

155
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,920
So for the boys in here Bob no luck you heard it what do you think about this theory?

156
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:20,280
I tend to agree with Earl a little bit on that because depending on how you look at it you

157
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,200
would have to fix it on another planet.

158
00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,880
Well actually you would have to fix it on something with quite a great gravitational attraction

159
00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,280
and most probably would be the sun if anything.

160
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:36,800
Well there again might be guilty in that reasoning of using our own terms of references?

161
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:37,800
Yes.

162
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,840
That is possible but what I was trying to bring up was as far as propulsion goes this has been

163
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,600
done in the laboratory and it can be done.

164
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,480
I might get a phone call on this but basically this is how it works.

165
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:53,680
You take a vacuum chamber bring it up to a high degree of vacuum and if you get the

166
00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:59,640
right magnets on top of the chamber and below the chamber with the right strength you can

167
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,880
get a metallic object to suspend itself in mid air in that chamber and this has been

168
00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:06,400
done before.

169
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,440
Canada has worked on a project magnet before and I imagine everybody here has heard of

170
00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:11,440
that or just about.

171
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,440
I know I think Earl has.

172
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:14,440
Bob knows.

173
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,760
But Dr. said.

174
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,640
As far as project magnet goes I don't know if they are still working on it but this was

175
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:25,920
a Canadian effort and they got something I don't know the exact statistics on this but

176
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,480
they had something going I believe was more than a few feet in the air and it traveled

177
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,280
around 150 feet leaps as far as I know.

178
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,960
No this was dropped because they couldn't get it to any great extensible improvement.

179
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,680
Bob talked about that one night.

180
00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:43,840
One of the things was Avro project Avro which did this.

181
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:50,360
The project magnet was basically the nomenclature for the Air Force.

182
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,960
Well basically the Canadian government the Department of Transport had a what they call

183
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,960
their project magnet which was the UFO effort by Canada.

184
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:04,200
It was headed by Dr. Wilburton B. Smith from Ottawa and that was basically UFO and had

185
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,440
nothing to do directly with propulsion not project magnet.

186
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,760
However the Canadian government the Air Force was working on this type of device but it

187
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,280
never got off the ground to any particular it was too unstable in this operation.

188
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:19,640
I know it did get on the ground.

189
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,200
I've been wondering Harve isn't it possible some evening perhaps we could if we go back

190
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:30,600
a little longer schedule after the papers off striking situation that we might be able

191
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,400
to get Dr. Smith this friend of Bob's on the air with us.

192
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,720
If he's able to I will call him and see if he's in condition.

193
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,880
Yeah he has been able to contribute.

194
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:46,960
Bob no I want to get into something with you and just a minute about theories of propulsion

195
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,440
but right now since some people have been waiting on the line let's do take a couple

196
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:50,920
of quick telephone questions here.

197
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,920
What's yours please.

198
00:12:54,920 --> 00:13:02,840
You've been reading about feats of water traveling on a layer of ionized air.

199
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,840
In a what in a hot pan.

200
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:13,840
Does have any connection with angel hair from hot pans to ionized.

201
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:15,840
Oh anybody follow this.

202
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:16,840
No.

203
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:17,840
No.

204
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,840
I'm afraid I'm lost on that.

205
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,840
It's traveling on a layer of what now ionized air.

206
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,840
Well didn't we discuss one week about the possibility of angel hair being made up of ionized air.

207
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:30,840
Yes.

208
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:37,840
Maybe he's speaking of when a doctor for instance takes an ultrasonic instrument and puts water

209
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:42,840
on it you can see that bubbling and hopping up into the air.

210
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,840
Is that what he's meaning.

211
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,840
I'd like perhaps what you have reference to is a new kind of boat.

212
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,840
I know they have them in Italy and I think they're going to have them over here where

213
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,840
they travel along on a layer of there.

214
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,840
Oh yeah that might be it.

215
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:55,840
Hydrofoil.

216
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,840
Hydrofoils probably.

217
00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,840
Yeah that's what it is.

218
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:01,840
That's a new kind of boat and I'm waiting for him.

219
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:02,840
I think they're great.

220
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,840
Okay thank you for calling.

221
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,840
This is P.M. your question please.

222
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:13,840
When a UFO sighting is reported to a radio station.

223
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,840
Go ahead.

224
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:22,840
That across the country you listen to these reports and a sighting might come in and radio

225
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,840
stations will broadcast it one time and perhaps to what you say it's never broadcast more than

226
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:27,840
one or two times.

227
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,840
Alright so go ahead.

228
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,840
Does someone call and tell the station not to say anything further about it?

229
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,840
If so who calls and what is said.

230
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,840
Well I can speak for myself.

231
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:46,840
We've reported a number of them here on our UFO round table and maybe I should feel neglected

232
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,840
but no one has called me.

233
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,840
And on regular news broadcast no as far as I know no one's ever called.

234
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:55,840
I have heard though.

235
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,840
In fact we reported a couple of them here on the round table discussion.

236
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,840
Radio stations were up and we had them on the air here.

237
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,840
We called them up in Vermont I believe.

238
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:15,840
And according to the report the Air Force had come in there and asked them not to report it anymore until further proof was found.

239
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,840
I don't know where the clapping comes from.

240
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,840
If indeed there is any clapping and I would assume it would be a voluntary thing on the part of the radio station or the individual.

241
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,840
Rather to cooperate with the Air Force or not.

242
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:27,840
That's a good question.

243
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:28,840
Thank you for calling.

244
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,840
Alright that takes care of a couple of the questions and we'll get to more later.

245
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:39,840
But Bob Boak since you're here and you're area of specialized interest in playing sources in general is propulsion.

246
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:45,840
Let me give you about 60 seconds to prepare your own ideas as far as propulsion is concerned.

247
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,840
Because in just a minute I'll ask you that question.

248
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,840
Speaking of space as we do every Thursday night here on program PM from 10.30 until 11.

249
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,840
I don't know if you've been reading show magazine of late.

250
00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:04,840
But this particular issue I think you particularly those of you interested in outer space and flying sources will find very interesting.

251
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:05,840
Because they ask a question.

252
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,840
The question is will mankind be left behind?

253
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:15,840
Well America's new space frontier create maybe a new culture or to destroy the old heritage in the name of progress.

254
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:24,840
Well this current issue of show magazine explores these and other important aspects of man's future in space through the eyes of four very concerned authorities.

255
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:30,840
Now in show loaded critic Max Lerner looks to a great rebirth in our art sciences and politics.

256
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:38,840
General James Gaffin draws upon his experience and examines the byproducts of space explorations and their impact on our daily lives.

257
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:44,840
Theologian scholar C.S. Lewis asks some disturbing questions about the spiritual problems to be encountered.

258
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:50,840
And then science expert Edwin Diamond reports on Telstar's growing role in shaping our future progress.

259
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,840
A very good issue this week for show magazine especially for people interested in outer space.

260
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,840
They say and I quote this.

261
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:04,840
Events and discoveries can reshape our thinking as well as our machines our cultures as well as our wars.

262
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:10,840
If you don't think so they suggest that you stick around and watch your TV set about 1965 maybe.

263
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:17,840
Don't miss Max Lerner James Gaffin C.S. Lewis and Ed Diamond in the February issue of show magazine.

264
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:28,840
It's on sale right now 12 minutes before 11 o'clock and on the program PM you fall around table this evening Bob Groves and Earl Naff and a special guest this evening Bob Nowak.

265
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:36,840
Bob what have you determined in your own mind is behind the propulsion of flying saucers if they exist.

266
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:45,840
Well if they exist and we'll put that on a qualitative it all depends on one thing that we're talking about magnetic fields.

267
00:17:45,840 --> 00:18:00,840
First of all I'd like to say one thing that when this gentleman wrote this letter about the 90 degree 90 degree turns you could explain it simply as this as far as why the people say why can these people inside these spaceships.

268
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,840
How can they take this force.

269
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:09,840
But if you consider this fact like I explained to Bob once that everything is relative to the people in the ship.

270
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:19,840
Just like we are on Earth and I don't have your respect to consider this but we are on Earth traveling through around the sun at approximately 8000 miles an hour.

271
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:25,840
Our solar system is traveling through space in the Milky Way approximately a million miles an hour.

272
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,840
In other words as I'm sitting here before the microphone right now I am jolly well not sitting still.

273
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:38,840
Right in fact if you if you stop to consider it you could actually be in motion in seven different ways at the same time.

274
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:44,840
The first motion you're going around the solar system or around the sun at 8000 miles an hour that's number one.

275
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:52,840
Number two the Earth and the whole solar system are traveling in the Milky Way at approximately a million miles an hour that's three.

276
00:18:52,840 --> 00:19:03,840
The third one is the whole galaxy itself is traveling through space and fantastic it's way up 10 to the who knows what miles an hour.

277
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:12,840
10 to the who knows what power it's way up there and then if you consider that say you're on Earth while this is all going on we already have three motions.

278
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:19,840
You're on a train going in one direction going up a hill that's five.

279
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:31,840
And going up going up a hill that's six because you're a train going in a direction and then you're going up a hill that's six and you're walking backward down the corridor of the train.

280
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,840
That's seven different motions at the same time.

281
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,840
I think you snicked an extra one in there but I'll give you another bit of the back.

282
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:44,840
But anyway everything is relative actually like I say you're on Earth you don't feel the motion with all this great speed that we're actually.

283
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:52,840
Not to a UFO to the people in the flying saucer whoever or whoever controls it everything is relative to them.

284
00:19:52,840 --> 00:20:00,840
In other words as we are relative to the Earth they are relative to the flying saucer and that plane saucer makes a 90 degree turn.

285
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:07,840
It doesn't affect them just as well as we don't be we're not affected by us traveling through space at the great rate that we are.

286
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,840
I don't know if this can be this can be easily seen but if you stop and think about it is true.

287
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:22,840
I consider the flying saucer as its own little Earth with its own gravity gravitational field and it's traveling through space all of a sudden it makes a sharp turn.

288
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,840
Well everybody inside the inter-

289
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:30,840
It's not going to be like for example you've seen these little balloons that they sell to children.

290
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,840
It'll be a balloon inside of a balloon inside of that balloon they'll have a little picture of Mickey Mouse baby.

291
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:43,840
It's like the Mickey Mouse inside that balloon would be like the spaceship inside this gravitational field it's creating.

292
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,840
Right you could look at it that way.

293
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,840
So basically that's it.

294
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,840
As you are to the Earth somebody is to this ship.

295
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,840
What creates this gravitational field?

296
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,840
Well as far as this creation of the gravitational field it could be one of many things now.

297
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,840
One possible theory was and this is proposed by a few scientists I've read this before.

298
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,840
That like that principle that I told you that you could take a vacuum chamber and it's possible this has been done in a laboratory.

299
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,840
You have two huge magnets with a terrific coulombs of energy passing through them.

300
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,840
You have a little metal object in there and it will suspend itself in mid-air.

301
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:25,840
Now if this was applied in reverse onto the ship itself it could be deflecting the Earth's magnetic attraction.

302
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:37,840
Now one thing that's more or less possible proof of why these ships work on magnetic attraction and it would be specifically of the Earth and not another planet is this.

303
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:43,840
I don't know if you noticed or not but the recent reports on any flying saucers around this area most of them will be in Akron.

304
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,840
There's a reason for this because I'm not sure why though.

305
00:21:46,840 --> 00:22:00,840
If you're near Akron or not far away from Akron anyway I don't know the exact mileage but geophysicists or somebody on that line could probably tell you that there is a magnetic fault running through the Earth at pretty close to Akron or in that area anyway.

306
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:06,840
And magnetic faults are lines of specific intensity a little bit greater intensity than other places.

307
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:11,840
In other words like the what is it latitude or longitude running from the North to the South? Longitude.

308
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:18,840
Well there you could consider those like the longitude and the lines. They're not really but they run from Earth to South.

309
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:24,840
And as you pass to this point or to this line you are going to a point of greater magnetic attraction.

310
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,840
This has been picked up by satellites recently and it's data.

311
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:34,840
And you go to one magnetic you can feel it you can see by instrumentation you have a greater magnetic attraction as you approach this line.

312
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,840
As you go away from it it fades out. You go to the next line it comes in again it increases.

313
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:46,840
Well actually this whole thing of creating its own gravitational field around it may seem completely far fetched and everything.

314
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:58,840
This is like a mode of transportation carrying its own mode of transportation but yet there was the day when everything was done by one soft transportation was done by something living

315
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:06,840
an animal of some kind when it did look completely ridiculous to everything because a machine that would actually move would like it when being pulling at a automobile.

316
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:13,840
That's ridiculous. Let's have a couple more questions here now from our listeners who are calling in. What's your question please?

317
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:22,840
Do you have in front of you a book and it relates to our discussion a moment ago about the censorship of the Earth for us. Go ahead.

318
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,840
And you'd like to ask Mr. Know like this question right?

319
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:34,840
The book was written by Edward RuPaul the former head of the what?

320
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,840
Of the Air Force Project on Flying Saucers.

321
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:46,840
You say you feel the Air Force has clamped down quite a bit on the information about flying saucers.

322
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,840
Alright go ahead sir. Why is this book a lot of what does the book say? Let me ask you that first.

323
00:23:52,840 --> 00:24:02,840
The book is entitled the report on the notified flying object. Well does it just say that in essence take 300 pages to say they don't exist?

324
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:09,840
It takes 300 pages to tell what the Air Force has done.

325
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,840
What about this book Bob? Anybody familiar with it?

326
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,840
I've blanched through it. I haven't read it thoroughly. Bobby, you read through it?

327
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,840
Yes. That's one of the latest I read.

328
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:27,840
Well basically the idea, the format of the book almost in its entirety approximately 98% of the book I'd say

329
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:35,840
builds up the Air Force investigation of UFO through the entire history of UFO as actually observed by the Air Force formally.

330
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,840
And then this was his first book. He by the way was head of the Project Blue Book.

331
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,840
He has now passed away about three or four years ago right?

332
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,840
Yes sir.

333
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:54,840
And the interesting part about it in his first edition he merely presents all the facts concerning the UFO investigation.

334
00:24:54,840 --> 00:25:00,840
The fruit it has borne without coming to conclusions and says and leads the reader to believe all through it.

335
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,840
That definitely something must be there. It's very interesting the information he's presented.

336
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:12,840
Then he has written, he wrote another book, another edition which is called the Brand New and Large Edition

337
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,840
which he has placed, this was just about a year after this was out.

338
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:21,840
He has placed in it a final chapter in which people say, he starts out by saying,

339
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,840
people often ask me if I personally believe in flying saucers. Positively I don't.

340
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:33,840
Do you remember, Harv, there was only a few weeks back, I think it was the week that Bob was home snowbound,

341
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:41,840
that I quoted Captain Ed Ruppelt in the six letters that he had written to Major Kehoe

342
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:47,840
and in there stating how he had wanted to let information out and was being clamped down on, do you recall that?

343
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,840
Yes I do, but he is now out right on the air force.

344
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:50,840
He's dead.

345
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,840
Well, I mean, he's out of the air force.

346
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,840
When he wrote this book, he's in a different one now.

347
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,840
When he wrote this book was he out of the air force?

348
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,840
And it's still, would he not be out from under this ruling?

349
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:00,840
No.

350
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:01,840
He would not be out.

351
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,840
He wouldn't be out from under the ruling but he was no longer in the air force.

352
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,840
He still retained though his title to be a captain.

353
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:12,840
Well, I think the question is, why was he allowed to even write this book as little as it said?

354
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,840
Well, that last book was a retraction practically with that chapter you see.

355
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:17,840
I see.

356
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,840
Okay, thank you for calling. Very good question.

357
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,840
This is PM. One quick question please.

358
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,840
All right, go ahead.

359
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:35,840
What about the possible use of iron plasma as a source of propulsion?

360
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:36,840
Possible?

361
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:37,840
Possible.

362
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,840
Yes, iron and some of the other dense materials yielding high ion concentration.

363
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,840
Iron, lithium, cadmium, there are a number of these if they do that.

364
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:47,840
It's a possibility.

365
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:48,840
Iron.

366
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:49,840
No one has checked it out.

367
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:55,840
As far as a possible propulsion system, it is definitely possible and it is proven.

368
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,840
And the NESA is presently working on such material.

369
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:04,840
In fact, they have an atomic powered generation type of ion propulsion.

370
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,840
They have a small atomic pile basically real quickly.

371
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,840
It's a small atomic pile that produces steam to drive a turbine which drives an electric generator which produces your ions.

372
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,840
Now this is through a complicated process and we don't have time to do it right now to explain it.

373
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,840
But like I say, it is possible.

374
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,840
I've read into this extensively and I know the theory behind it and it does work.

375
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,840
I mean they have it proven, definitely.

376
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,840
And they are going to use this on long distance trips for instance like to Mars.

377
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,840
The only thing they're running into problems with is cooling the atomic reactor.

378
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,840
Out in space, cooling is a difficult problem.

379
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,840
They needed a radiator about the size of a football field to cool off things.

380
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,840
And the problem they run into here is that meteorites because of the such a size of radiator can penetrate

381
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:53,840
and they're trying to find a material that is light enough and yet able to withstand this meteoric punctures.

382
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,840
It's amazing where we're living in.

383
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,840
It's really just what we project our...

384
00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:58,840
Thank you very much for calling.

385
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,840
I was just projecting my mind back as you were talking just to the end of the last century, you know,

386
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,840
when things like mother-in-law's were just coming along.

387
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,840
It's been fantastic these 60 years.

388
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,840
I just want to say we never got round to thanking all these people who have written this week.

389
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:18,840
Ms. Walter Phil and Quentin Sealy and Wim Deale and...

390
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:25,840
I'll tell you, next week maybe we'll take a special little extra time and answer a bunch of these letters that have been coming in.

391
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,840
And don't forget a reminder also to you that the Youthful Report Center, people are always asking,

392
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,840
where should I report if I see anything resembling an unidentified flying object?

393
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:41,840
The number is 234-0861 for the Youthful Report Center, 234-0861.

394
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,840
Now, speaking of outer space or at least up there in the air somewhere,

395
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,840
I guess I'll just argue something that I think sort of pertains,

396
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,840
because it's definitely up there in the air.

397
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,840
Fly to Bob Noack who joined us this evening and we'll be back again at a future date

398
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,840
and also Earl Naff and Bob Grove.

399
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,840
Next week, Earl just reminds me with a little note here, Lawrence Blaisey will be on here,

400
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,840
the Cleveland Youthful Society.

401
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:04,840
Is that it?

402
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:05,840
That's right.

403
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:06,840
And he represents them.

404
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,840
He'll be on hand here with a very different viewpoint of flying.

405
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:10,840
So I'll suggest not to worry.

406
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,840
Next week I'd like to make a comment on a couple of letters from the Air Force that I talked to Bob Grove about.

407
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,840
I'm having a difficult time, a very difficult time getting all of them, but I intend to.

408
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:19,840
And we'll talk about that next week.

409
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,840
Well, we're having a hard time squeezing some time.

410
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,840
I hear you've got that for tonight on Program PM.

411
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,840
A final reminder that, let's see,

412
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,840
earliest Bob and Earl will stick around tonight to answer some questions.

413
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:30,840
They'll come in, right?

414
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,840
2415637, if you'd like to keep calling, we'll answer the calls even after we go up the air.

415
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,840
2415637.

416
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,840
That's it for tonight on Program PM.